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Case then.................Ingersoll now

12K views 50 replies 15 participants last post by  Hydriv 
#1 ·
In 1976, Case offered the customer the following choice of tractors

210 gear transmission

220 Hy driv

222 Hy driv

224 Hy driv

444 Hy driv big wheel

446 Hy driv big wheel

A total of six models and 3 HP ratings.

Today Eastman offers

3018 Hy driv

3021 Hy driv

3023 Hy driv

4018 Hy driv

4021 Hy driv

4023 Hy driv

Once again 6 models and 3 HP ratings

In addition, thanks to a foot pedal that controls speed but not direction, these models were created and added to the line

4218 Hy driv

4221 Hy driv

4223 PS

Power Steering is available for all 21 and23 HP models but not the 18 HP models

Those two options add 6 more models to the lineup. From the standpoint of a dealer, that's a huge investment in capital and showroom floor space if he was to display each one. At bare minimum, he would need to display one 3000 model and one 4000 to at least let the customer plunk his butt into the seat. In truth, that isn't a lot to ask of a bona fide dealer.....providing the company was actually providing the sales support that other manufacturers supply. When Eastman fails to produce a sales brochure as a hand out to customers that show the entire line along with the available attachments and options, then that puts a heavy burden on any dealer. Customers are expecting to walk in the door, see the tractor on the floor and then walk out with a colour brochure and a quote. So.... let's look at the reality of a quote, shall we?

A 3018 or 4018 is going to cost you $7, 419.00 just for the basic tractor that does nothing but tug a lawn roller or garden cart. Oh....you want to cut grass do you? OK....that will cost you another $1,680.00 to add a 44" side discharge deck but..........if you go for a 48" deck.......we'll give that to you for ten bucks LESS. Someone needs to explain how that is possible.. A wider deck uses more steel, longer blades and a longer drive belt. In any event, this basic grass cutter will set you back $9099.00. Uh... excuse me but since it does snow in this area, would you like to super-size your order with a snocaster? Yes? Well no problem. A 48" model will add $1961.00 to your price, bringing it to $11,060.00.. Tell me, do you have a large veggie garden sir? You do?.... Well then, you should consider adding a sleeve hitch ($535.00), rear PTO Kit ($816.00), wheel weight kit ($261.00), tire chains ($163.00), Flow Control Valve ($663.000 and a set of suitcase weights for the front ($583.00) so that you have all then necessary ingredients to properly support the hydraulic tiller ($1749.00).

What's that you say? Your yard gets a lot of leaves every fall? Well then, I didn't realize that your property was that large so perhaps you should consider a HydraVac ($2,154.00) instead of the HydraBagger ($2,320.00). Of course, with the HydraVac, you will also need the DC1000 Dump Cart (1,007.00) . By rights, I should be selling you the 60 inch deck ($2,730.00) instead of the 48" deck but for some reason beyond my comprehension, the big deck does not support either Hydra systems. Boggles the mind, does it not... since the 60 " deck is touted as being the COMMERCIAL deck and many competing mowers in the commercial market do offer grass catching systems.

Where are we on price, you ask? Hmmm. let me see. You decided on the 4018 with a 48" deck, snocaster, wheel weight kit, rear PTO kit, Flow Control Kit, tire chains, sleeve hitch, tiller, suitcase weights, dump cart and HydraVac.....Hmmm did I forget anything? Nah... I don't think so. The price comes out to a mere $18,991.00 less the $200.00 trade-in value for your John Deer L120. Of course, there is the little matter of sales tax on that figure of 8% which adds $1,503.28 to the total making it $20,294.28.

Now...can we upgrade you to our top model with 23 HP, foot operated speed control and... power steering? How about we just make a comparison for the fun of it and then you can think on it?

4223 ............................................9,534.00
Power Steering............................... 589.00
3 point hitch.................................... 991.00
Sleeve Hitch adapter......................... 275.00
Rear PTO kit HP-42..............................848.00
Flow Control kit.....................................663.00
Tire Chains............................................ 163.00
Wheel weights ......cast iron set of 4........ 484.00
Suitcase weight kit ....................................583.00

Total for tractor....................................14,130.00

May I remind you that the tractor is still just a tractor at that price but it will tow a trailer or other stuff in style.

Snocaster..................................................1,961.00
Tiller.........................................................1,749.00
48" deck....................................................1,670.00
HydraVac....................................................2,154.00
Dump Cart................................................. 1,007.00

Total for attachments........................$8,541.00

Grand total............................................$22,671.00

8% Tax...................................................$1,813.68

Bottom Line.................................... $24,484.68

Don't forget.... We'll knock off $200.00 plus 8% if you trade in your Deere.

And if you need a winter cab that isn't made of steel anymore.... then add another $1,087.00 plus tax.

Or how about a rough cut 48" tow behind mower for that back field? It's a bargain at $3,650.00........plus tax, of course.

And you wonder why Ingersoll doesn't sell?
 
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#2 ·
Hydriv said:
In 1976, Case offered the customer the following choice of tractors

210 gear transmission

220 Hy driv

222 Hy driv

224 Hy driv

444 Hy driv big wheel

446 Hy driv big wheel

A total of six models and 3 HP ratings.

Today Eastman offers

3018 Hy driv

3021 Hy driv

3023 Hy driv

4018 Hy driv

4021 Hy driv

4023 Hy driv

Once again 6 models and 3 HP ratings

In addition, thanks to a foot pedal that controls speed but not direction, these models were created and added to the line

4218 Hy driv

4221 Hy driv

4223 PS

Power Steering is available for all 21 and23 HP models but not the 18 HP models

Those two options add 6 more models to the lineup. From the standpoint of a dealer, that's a huge investment in capital and showroom floor space if he was to display each one. At bare minimum, he would need to display one 3000 model and one 4000 to at least let the customer plunk his butt into the seat. In truth, that isn't a lot to ask of a bona fide dealer.....providing the company was actually providing the sales support that other manufacturers supply. When Eastman fails to produce a sales brochure as a hand out to customers that show the entire line along with the available attachments and options, then that puts a heavy burden on any dealer. Customers are expecting to walk in the door, see the tractor on the floor and then walk out with a colour brochure and a quote. So.... let's look at the reality of a quote, shall we?

A 3018 or 4018 is going to cost you $7, 419.00 just for the basic tractor that does nothing but tug a lawn roller or garden cart. Oh....you want to cut grass do you? OK....that will cost you another $1,680.00 to add a 44" side discharge deck but..........if you go for a 48" deck.......we'll give that to you for ten bucks LESS. Someone needs to explain how that is possible.. A wider deck uses more steel, longer blades and a longer drive belt. In any event, this basic grass cutter will set you back $9099.00. Uh... excuse me but since it does snow in this area, would you like to super-size your order with a snocaster? Yes? Well no problem. A 48" model will add $1961.00 to your price, bringing it to $11,060.00.. Tell me, do you have a large veggie garden sir? You do?.... Well then, you should consider adding a sleeve hitch ($535.00), rear PTO Kit ($816.00), wheel weight kit ($261.00), tire chains ($163.00), Flow Control Valve ($663.000 and a set of suitcase weights for the front ($583.00) so that you have all then necessary ingredients to properly support the hydraulic tiller ($1749.00).

What's that you say? Your yard gets a lot of leaves every fall? Well then, I didn't realize that your property was that large so perhaps you should consider a HydraVac ($2,154.00) instead of the HydraBagger ($2,320.00). Of course, with the HydraVac, you will also need the DC1000 Dump Cart (1,007.00) . By rights, I should be selling you the 60 inch deck ($2,730.00) instead of the 48" deck but for some reason beyond my comprehension, the big deck does not support either Hydra systems. Boggles the mind, does it not... since the 60 " deck is touted as being the COMMERCIAL deck and many competing mowers in the commercial market do offer grass catching systems.

Where are we on price, you ask? Hmmm. let me see. You decided on the 4018 with a 48" deck, snocaster, wheel weight kit, rear PTO kit, Flow Control Kit, tire chains, sleeve hitch, tiller, suitcase weights, dump cart and HydraVac.....Hmmm did I forget anything? Nah... I don't think so. The price comes out to a mere $18,991.00 less the $200.00 trade-in value for your John Deer L120. Of course, there is the little matter of sales tax on that figure of 8% which adds $1,503.28 to the total making it $20,294.28.

Now...can we upgrade you to our top model with 23 HP, foot operated speed control and... power steering? How about we just make a comparison for the fun of it and then you can think on it?

4023 ............................................9,534.00
Power Steering............................... 589.00
3 point hitch.................................... 991.00
Sleeve Hitch adapter......................... 275.00
Rear PTO kit HP-42..............................848.00
Flow Control kit.....................................663.00
Tire Chains............................................ 163.00
Wheel weights ......cast iron set of 4........ 484.00
Suitcase weight kit ....................................583.00

Total for tractor....................................14,130.00

May I remind you that the tractor is still just a tractor at that price but it will tow a trailer or other stuff in style.

Snocaster..................................................1,961.00
Tiller.........................................................1,749.00
48" deck....................................................1,670.00
HydraVac....................................................2,154.00
Dump Cart................................................. 1,007.00

Total for attachments........................$8,541.00

Grand total............................................$22,671.00

8% Tax...................................................$1,813.68

Bottom Line.................................... $24,484.68

Don't forget.... We'll knock off $200.00 plus 8% if you trade in your Deere.

And if you need a winter cab that isn't made of steel anymore.... then add another $1,087.00 plus tax.

Or how about a rough cut 48" tow behind mower for that back field? It's a bargain at $3,650.00........plus tax, of course.

And you wonder why Ingersoll doesn't sell?
The pricing above is that a 4023 or did you mean a 4223? If a 4023 what would a 4223 PS list for?
 
#3 ·
Slip of the finger, sir. I meant 4223 and I corrected my original post.


The price list shows the power steering as an option only. It does not show a 4223PS model or any other model with PS on the end. I can only assume that the pricing I gave is correct since it is drawn from Eastman's own current price list. Of course, dealers are free to sell for less. :lol: :lol:
 
#5 ·
OK.... so let's see what you get in an X500

- 24 HP

- hydrostatic drive

-differential lock

- cast iron front axle

- rear weight bracket

-24 x 12 x 12 turf tires

- covered tool box

- cup holder

- hour meter

- 22 inch turning radius

- 7 inch fore/aft adjustable seat

- 54 inch deck

MSRP - $6,000.00

4 year- 500 hour warranty.

Moving to the X700

- 23 HP liquid cooled engine

- cruise control

- diff lock

- oil cooler

- hydrostatic drive - foot controlled

- hour meter

- front weight bracket

- front hitch receiver

- 24 x 12 x12 rear rubber

- tail lights

- halogen headlights

-back up light

-cast iron front axle

- cup holder

- covered tool box

- rear work lights

- 12 volt outlet

- six position tilt steering wheel

- 25 inch turning radius

- 7" fore/aft seat with 3 position suspension system

- power steering

- 54" deck

- hydraulic PTO clutch

- hydraulic implement lift

- 4 year 700 hour warranty

- weight with no fuel and 54" deck....1,064 LBS

- $9600.00 MSRP

Optional 3 point hitch, 540 RPM rear PTO and 4 remotes available.

Source...... http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/pro ... /x700.page?

By and large, an Ingersoll is simpler tractor to build. Go get a Parts Manual for a new X700 and make a comparison and yet the Deere sells for less, has a larger deck, diff lock, cruise control, cup holder and turns much tighter.
 
#6 ·
My son currently as three 4020PS tractors all with rear PTO. One set up for snow blowing w/cab, another with the hydra bagger/wagon and another with a 60" deck for mowing. All mint low hour units. He grew up on the Case Ingersoll line since the mid 70s and has a lot of loyalty and enjoys the eq. However like most young professionals he is busy. With 6 1.2 acres to mow and a 55-' driveway he has had enough of the ground speed. He could afford pretty much what he wants but is done thinking about Ingersoll as a new option. I think Tom was a few options short on the JD option list. On top of the differences the JD dealer network, service (for those who do not work on their own tractor), other options are worth too many extra $$ to him. He said he feels like he waited long enough for Ingersoll to turn things around in terms of updating the tractor and to developing dealers. I do not blame him. His service man (me) does not blame him either.

I love these tractors and own more than I will admit to. But in the retail world lets face it, they have become an off brand oddball. You have what, an Ingersoll Rand??? Never heard of them. Average Joe with some money to spend is not going to fork out $10,000 plus on an odd ball no matter how good they are suppose to be. I don't blame them anymore, I wouldn't either. Neither will I part with my Ingersolls.
 
#8 ·
Just to chime in on dealer network, the JD dealer in worcester county offers a spring tune up special. They come to your home with a panel truck, drive the tractor into the truck, The truck has a lift in it. For $249 they do a complete tune up, oil change, oil filter, fuel filter, transaxle fluid change, air filter, sharpen and balance the mower blades, clean the deck, grease all fittings. For someone that does not want to work on their own machine this is one hell of a deal and the tractor never leaves your property.
 
#9 ·
markgru02919 said:
Just to chime in on dealer network, the JD dealer in worcester county offers a spring tune up special. They come to your home with a panel truck, drive the tractor into the truck, The truck has a lift in it. For $249 they do a complete tune up, oil change, oil filter, fuel filter, transaxle fluid change, air filter, sharpen and balance the mower blades, clean the deck, grease all fittings. For someone that does not want to work on their own machine this is one hell of a deal and the tractor never leaves your property.
My distant relative up the road from me has a newer JD and his dealer does that for him to. Truck and all. yawn.
 
#11 ·
Thanks Hyriv for that break down... I think :eh: ... :shock: now I think I'm going to cry.... :sad: :sad: ok I'm back... that is absolutely rediculous!!! It makes me wonder if President (insert whoever in the line) ________ is running there company. :headscratcher:
They are so out of touch with their costumers and reality it's unreal! Seriously. If you sell more you can usually price lower. What the heck are they thinking? It's as if they are going to ride this train until it falls off the cliff and then it's gone for ever never to be the same again.
There is so much wrong with this Company I can't even begin to touch the surface and that's just from us average Joe's that enjoy these tractors and how we see it from the outside. If it's this bad from our stand point think of how messed up it must be on the inside. :wtf: :headscratcher: :facepalm:
 
#12 ·
Even if I go another route someday for an "everyday" tractor it will never be a John Deere. I'll jump on the Kubota band wagon first. A nice 4x4 BX Series Diesel in the shed would be nice. :thumbup:
Sorry Ingersoll but I can get a very nice Kubota Diesel with excellent options for less $ with several local dealers nearby.
 
#13 ·
:goodpost: I'm kinda leaning the same way. I don't ever want to part with my beloved little machine, but if I ever feel the need to replace or upgrade, I will seek out and obtain an older Kubota such as the little b5100/5200 b6100/6200 or b7100/7200.
I have seen a ton of folks that own them around my area and there is a hige dealer about 8 miles away from my house. That beats the 70 miles in the middle of BFE to get to my only ingersoll location by a landslide.
 
#17 ·
Mjoe7 said:
Thanks Hyriv for that break down... I think :eh: ... :shock: now I think I'm going to cry.... :sad: :sad: ok I'm back... that is absolutely rediculous!!! It makes me wonder if President (insert whoever in the line) ________ is running there company. :headscratcher:
They are so out of touch with their costumers and reality it's unreal! Seriously. If you sell more you can usually price lower. What the heck are they thinking? It's as if they are going to ride this train until it falls off the cliff and then it's gone for ever never to be the same again.
There is so much wrong with this Company I can't even begin to touch the surface and that's just from us average Joe's that enjoy these tractors and how we see it from the outside. If it's this bad from our stand point think of how messed up it must be on the inside. :wtf: :headscratcher: :facepalm:
There is an unsubstantiated rumour going around that Eastman recently laid off several staff due to poor sales. I have not been able to confirm this but it would not surprise me when taking in all of the shortcomings of the company. Laying off staff is never a good sign and you have to ask yourself if "laying off" is just a convenient way of saying "letting go". After all, how can sales improve when the company chooses to not improve their website, produce sales literature, find new dealers, properly support the existing dealers or conduct any form of advertising that would tell people that the product even exists?

The only possible salvation for the Ingersoll line would be if another company with deep pockets bought it. However, why would they? The brand has no national recognition any longer. When MTD bought Cub Cadet, Bolens, White and other makes in the OPE business, all of those came with a loyal following. The second that Case sold out to Jack Ingersoll, that brand recognition began to die like a wounded animal that is slowly bleeding out. By the time Eastman arrived on the scene, the brand was already on life support and it has remained in a coma ever since. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to finally pull the plug and give what remains of the carcass a decent burial. Just don't expect many mourners at the grave site.
 
#18 ·
All I know is that there are enough Case and Ingersoll tractors left on this planet to satisfy me until I leave this place. IF and I say IF I NEED to jump ship and look for another brand then it will be Kubota. I hope I never see that day though and we all need to be prepared for the official announcement one day that Eastman is going out of business. Except it now and it wont hurt as bad when the news goes public.
 
#19 ·
I don't think that Eastman will go out of business. A more likely scenario will be that most of the dealers will quit handling the product except for parts. They will give up from pure exasperation with a company that does nothing to help them. The distributors will then refuse to inventory new tractors because there isn't sufficient turnover to justify the warehouse space and the exasperation will be very evident at their end also. How does a production line function when that point is reached? Will Eastman keep two or three guys on just to build 20 tractors per year? Those guys are a part of the companies annual overhead. The sales that result from the product they build only generate X amount of profit per year. When you deduct their wages and benefits from that profit, what's left over for the company? At that point, Eastman will shut down the production line, sell off any machinery it cannot use in other ventures they are involved in. How long they will continue to manufacture new parts to support old tractors is anybody's guess. Profit will be the decision maker there. However, Eastman will continue as a company just as long as the other divisions continue to generate profit.

This reminds me of that old joke about the bird that flies in every diminishing circles until it finally flies up its own butt-hole and disappears entirely.

That...... is what I see as the fate of the Ingersoll line. Sad to say but every year that passes, I am more and more convinced that this is the destiny of one of the greatest garden tractors every conceived. The Johnson brothers must be spinning in their graves.
 
#20 ·
A profitable way for Eastman to get the national Ingersoll name recognition would be to make a slightly higher end box store model and get their name into the HD, Lowes and TSC. This way they could grab some of the homeowner lawn tractor market, get name recognition and keep the higher end Garden tractors in the dealers like JD does.
 
#21 ·
If Eastman was to put a few models in the big box stores then where would they downgrade on the tractors to appeal to the people that are shopping for lawn tractors in the big box store price range? Would these machines be made from thinner gauge metal? A less beefy rear axle? I dont want to have to say to my kids when they see an Ingersoll tractor at Lowes or Home Depot that "they dont make them like they used to".

I just feel like my kids will be talking about these tractors as something that once was but sadly is no more.
 
#22 ·
You will never see that happen. PERIOD.

None of the big box stores would touch Ingersoll with a ten foot pole because they have no brand recognition in the industry. Big box stores have bean counters that constantly examine how well product turns over. Their job is to maximize the return on floor space. Given the choice between an Ingersoll vs a Deere or Cub Cadet.... the Ingy loses hands down.
 
#23 ·
Hydriv said:
You will never see that happen. PERIOD.

None of the big box stores would touch Ingersoll with a ten foot pole because they have no brand recognition in the industry. Big box stores have bean counters that constantly examine how well product turns over. Their job is to maximize the return on floor space. Given the choice between an Ingersoll vs a Deere or Cub Cadet.... the Ingy loses hands down.
That is why I said make them slightly better then the current box store offerings, Go with the tin frame and lighter transaxle, but keep the big MAN tires on it. In my opinion that is all they would need to make their product stick out when comparing them to the JD and Cub. Picture an Ingersoll parked near one of those Cubs or JD with the large tires, it would stand out and be much more appealing. I remarked the other day how the JD and Cubs at the box store have gotten even smaller than they were 5 years ago. They could also have a short history of Case / Ingersoll brochure attached to each tractor, there is also the perception / association the average Joe would make with Ingersoll and Ingersoll Rand.
 
#24 ·
The X700 Deere is their entry level garden tractor. All told, Deere has 12 different GT models available. It is not easy to make comparisons between Deere and Ingersoll because the differences are so dramatic. Take for instance, the X749 model that has a MSRP of $13,700.00.

Pricey? Sure it is but..... what Ingersoll model comes close to these features.

- 3 cylinder liquid cooled 24 HP diesel engine

- full time 4 wheel drive

- all wheel steering

- differential lock

- six position tilt steering wheel

- sliding seat adjust of seven inches for and aft

- six position seat suspension

- 40 amp alternator

- 6 1/2 gallon fuel tank

- cruise control

- hydrostatic drive with dual pedal control

- halogen headlamps

- tail light, stop light, rear work lights and back up lights

- cup holder, fender handles, covered toolbox, hour meter, 12 volt outlet

- cast iron front axle

- power steering

- hydraulic implement lift plus dual hydraulic remotes to run hydraulic cylinders on attachments.

- 62" deck

The features highlighted in red cannot be found on any Ingersoll model.

This machine is more sub-CUT than it is a GT because it has an operating weight of 1424 LBS with the deck but no fuel. The wheelbase is 55.7 inches compared to the 48 inch wheelbase of the Ingersoll. It is certainly pricier than any 4223 with a deck but when you are shopping in that snack bracket, you also have the disposable income to spend a few grand more without breaking the bank or the household budget. Obviously, there must be a market for such machines or Deere wouldn't continue to produce them. Eastman was dabbling in this area with the 4400 prototype that got killed off a couple years back. It was going to have a loader available for it but it was not 4 wheel drive or all-wheel steer or diesel powered. It was supposed to have either diff lock or a limited slip diff, I don't recall which. A deck larger than 60 inches was also talked about.

But that's about all there was... talk, talk, talk and more talk.. Hang on dealers....we're going to release this machine next spring. Oops.... that did not happen and then a new release date was set and that went by with no explanation. I think it was a good thing that they did not release this tractor because I think that it would have bombed like the Edsel did.

Oh yes, I know... Hilda is being just too harsh on Eastman in this thread. However, go ask any Bolens lover or Cub Cadet lover how they feel about what MTD did to their brand after taking it over and see if they are singing the praises of MTD.
 
#25 ·
markgru02919 said:
Hydriv said:
You will never see that happen. PERIOD.

None of the big box stores would touch Ingersoll with a ten foot pole because they have no brand recognition in the industry. Big box stores have bean counters that constantly examine how well product turns over. Their job is to maximize the return on floor space. Given the choice between an Ingersoll vs a Deere or Cub Cadet.... the Ingy loses hands down.
That is why I said make them slightly better then the current box store offerings, Go with the tin frame and lighter transaxle, but keep the big MAN tires on it. In my opinion that is all they would need to make their product stick out when comparing them to the JD and Cub. Picture an Ingersoll parked near one of those Cubs or JD with the large tires, it would stand out and be much more appealing. I remarked the other day how the JD and Cubs at the box store have gotten even smaller than they were 5 years ago. They could also have a short history of Case / Ingersoll brochure attached to each tractor, there is also the perception / association the average Joe would make with Ingersoll and Ingersoll Rand.
Currently, Ingersoll only makes garden tractors with hydraulic drive. They did delve into a hydrostatic drive Yard Tractor many years back and called it the 300 Series. There were two models available. The 316 and the 318. In spite of the fact that these were well-made machines, they did not sell very well. MTF member slkpk has owned one for at least three years now. He was a green and yellow guy from top to bottom. When his wife used this to mow the lawn, she did not want to ride the Deere again. He still has his Deere's but he prefers the 318. He bought a snowcaster and a cab for it plus he put tri-ribs on the front. He's used it to clear snow for the past three years.

What you are suggesting is that Eastman come up with a line of LAWN TRACTORS to go head to head with Cub Cadet, Craftsman, Deere and others. Well.... they have been there and done that with the old 100 Series followed by the 1000, 1200 and 2000 Series that included All Wheel Steering on two models as well as the ill-fated Odyssey in the late 90's.. None of these tractors were overwhelming success stories and none of them did much to raise the profile of Ingersoll in the public eye.

This venture you propose would be a massive undertaking by Eastman with a huge investment in engineering, research and development followed by tooling costs, new machinery, a larger factory and an uprecedented marketing campaign that would cost millions. The Hy driv system and all that it brings to the table would be gone, as would the 2 speed trans-axle. Those would be replaced by a cheap, aluminum throwaway, sealed hydrostatic trans-axle. A special trans-axle would have to be developed by one of the major manufacturers such as Hydro-Gear for this project. That alone would push up the price just so the big MAN tires could be used. Most of the tractors in this price point don't have bolt-on rims. They used rims with keyways and a single nut to secure the rim to the axle shafts. The hydro would need to develop higher torque to propel the larger diameter wheels. The only thing "Ingersoll" remaining in such a tractor would be the MAN tires. Is that enough to pull buyers away from Deere or Cub Cadet? I don't think so. Companies like MTD and Deere already have an edge over a start-up company like Ingersoll because they know they can order ten thousand trans-axles and sell the tractors they are attached to. Eastman won't have the ability to get bulk pricing.

Consumers don't give a rat's ass about lawn mower history. Price is the leading factor followed by prestige of the brand in the marketplace. It's a nice idea you have but for a number of reasons it just ain't gonna happen.. Sorry to rain on your picnic but... that's what I'm here for. :sidelaugh:
 
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