Pump suction fitting 4016
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    Pump suction fitting 4016

    Mowing today for the first time after repairing my travel valve and : huge cloud of smoke and tractor stopped!

    The inlet fitting came out of the pump. I've got it apart, pump on the bench and it still fits snug, but not a pressed fit. Oring is OK. I'm thinking of putting it back in with some red Loctite or maybe JBWeld. And, new oring of course.

    anyone dealt with this on a 4 digit tractor? Repaired without replacing the pump? Successfully?

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    Senior Member ssmewing's Avatar
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    That stinks. I would search for a better sealant than the ones you listed.

    What that would be, I don't know. It is as I am sure you know pretty important.

    Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member ssmewing's Avatar
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    The only pump I saw that did that had a problem with the coupler and the pump movement caused it to come out.

    Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmewing View Post
    That stinks. I would search for a better sealant than the ones you listed.

    What that would be, I don't know. It is as I am sure you know pretty important.

    Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
    I think it will get a good cleaning, coat with Loctite 608 and reinstall. Then drill a hole through the pump body and fitting. Tap and install a machine screw cut to length to just pass through the fitting a tiny bit. Then seal the thread with the same Loctite.

    BTW, Loctite 608 seems to be the best adhesive sealer available. Used to lock sleeves, bearing etc in place.

    Must be good, judging by the price!

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    Super Mod jfk's Avatar
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    Kenc

    I use Loctite sleeve retainer it's good stuff.
    Thought about suggesting, but don't know how it would hold up if the fit wasn't tight enough.
    With an machine screw it would probably work.
    I use it on cam bearings.

    Thanks
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  8. #6
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    Well, as they say good news and bad news.

    Good news, the repair to the pump fitting seems OK. Wound up using a Permatex sleeve retaining compound. Similar to the Loctite, but available locally and good to 400 deg vs 300 for loctite.

    Bad news, I had to relocated clamps and go over them tightening a couple of times to stop some leaks. Hoses all flexible but clamps had to be replaced in a couple in cases.

    All was well, I thought. Mowed about an acre when it just stopped, with another huge cloud of smoke.

    The suction fitting in the tank broke cleanly off!! Just a nice round hole in the tank now with no 'stem' to put a hose on.

    So, I'm in need of a replacement hyd tank for a 4016, I think any 4 digit works.

    Also, while working on this I noted much more pump movement than I expected. When running, the rotation snubber arm moves almost 1/4" fore and aft. The pump seems to be not in alignment with the crank. But, AFAIK, this thing has never been apart and has worked fine for 600+ hours. Maybe I just never noticed it because it's so hidden in the tower.

    When I removed the pump to repair, I took if off the adapter, so no chance of it being misaligned on reinstall.

    If you have experience w/4 digit, especially Vanguard powered, have you noticed how much motion there is/was by the pump when running?

    I'd hate to replace the tank and have the same thing happen.

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    Senior Member ssmewing's Avatar
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    I brought up the issue way back in the thread. Yes, I fixed exactly what have. You followed the path of the previous to me mechanic followed.

    I am trying to do this with out coming off badly. Words are harder than face to face or talking.

    The original reason the suction nib came off was the real issue. Your pump is rotating. It is not supposed to at all.

    Pictures will be needed.

    New rubber hoses will not leak with a proper clamp.

    I chronicaled the whole thing on Hydriv.ca but that is gone now.

    Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

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    Was the problem with the pump or adapter? I'm thinking of sitting the pump and engine on the bench and checking it out with a dial indicator. If the adapter is at fault, I'd guess it could be machined to correct it. Maybe a mandrel inserted in the hole where the pump shaft goes, then chucked in a lathe and the flywheel mounting face trued.

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    I had this problem on my 4018. I thought the shaft on the pump was bent. It turned out to be the adapter was rusting out and the hole was wobbled out a hair. This caused the pump to move around. New adapter and cleaned the shaft on the lathe and it is working great. Pump just floats there smoothly now. I wounder if you could use a bulkhead fitting on the bottom of the tank if you say the nipple is a clean break on the bottom of it??? They make all kinds of them.

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    Senior Member ssmewing's Avatar
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    First off, the fact is the pump did rotate. It rotated when the hose nib came out and it rotated when the tank got tore apart. Please accept that as fact. Well unless the vibration was a lot more than you have observed. Still, my only past experience was the pump rotated.

    When the hose nib came out you should have asked why.

    The flywheel is most likely fine. So, leave that alone for now. You do have to remove the engine mount bolts. To reinstall all your parts I cock the engine sideways a little to give my hand room enough to install the 4 bolts. Open the left side if you are right handed.

    The adapter and the pump shaft is one issue of two issues. What I saw was that at one point someone had taken the adapter off the shaft. When they reinstalled it the 2 set screws were either not tighten or not thread locked with red Loctite. This eventually caused the connection to get loose. In my situation, the key was sheared and became part of the pump shaft and the coupler. This leads to issue number two.

    The catch and spin of the shaft and the coupler broke the arm of the pump that keeps the pump from twisting. Once this happened and the pump twisted it pulled out the hose nib.


    To repair it I got a new arm that bolts onto the pump and rests against the rubber bumper. Second, I removed most of the key material from the pump shaft with a piece of belt sander material, one of my favorite abrasives even over the rolls of emery paper you buy in the plumbing isle. I bought a new adapter and of course key. I did not have the option to have the pump shaft turned to precision, so it was a very tight fit into the adapter. I pressed it on. That would not be normal. The real and expensive fix is a new pump. It was a customer job and they preferred the method I used money wise and were willing to live with it knowing it might not hold. I have never heard back, so I assume it worked.


    Having said that, the hoses that are still leaking need to go unless you are willing to live with the leak. To size the t-bolt clamps measure the rubber hose in millimeters and that has to be the largeest size the clamp will take. Believe me, I have gotten ones that are too big and then do not tighten all the way. You have to put the clamps on the nib then the hose, then slide the clamp on the hose. The suction hose is now very suspect as it has been yanked on at least twice very hard. The pump shaft and hose nib may or may not work long-term but are probably able to be tried. You will have the new adapter, expensive, to test fit it on the shaft. The old adapter is a paper weight.


    You may have more or less of the same problems, but I fixed the exact problem you are having and the same model.


    While you have all that stuff out, you should replace your nylon travel control shaft bushing if it is manual steer. I use the thickest bronze thrust washer they sell on McMaster in 1" OD 1/2" ID. Thickest gives you the most surface area against the shaft. I drill a small hole in the nyon bushing tight to the shaft. Use welding wire through the hole and up the shaft and pull on it from as close to the shaft as possible. The hard right angle of the wire, at least for me, stays put without needing to fish the end of the wire out of the spring. If it pulls out, then you do have to fish the end out from the spring. Then from underneath a screw driver will help push it out. Once it is out set the parking brake. That pulls the shaft forward until you can remove the bushing. To re-install it is much easier. Push the new on up the shaft with a piece of 1/2" pipe. The pipe needs to be just long enough to control where the lever shaft is and get the new bushing up the shaft enough. You are fighting the NSS and the dash bushing on this, so it's not easy. Once it is above the bracket you can move it back into place by releasing the parking brake and a long screwdriver.
    Last edited by ssmewing; 06-19-2017 at 08:05 PM.

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