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Runaways and Brakes.

13K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  david.barkey 
#1 ·
I was just reading a thread on tractors free wheeling down slopes. I was wondering if applying the brake will hold the tractor from taking off down a hill?
 
#2 ·
The brakes on these machines are meant to be parking brakes. If your tractor free wheels down inclines, try the retard position on the travel control lever. When fully depressed, the brake places the travel control lever in the neutral position and also compresses the brake band around the brake drum but the brake may or may not completely stop th tractor.
 
#3 ·
I wasn't concerned with stopping the tractor on a slope, just slow it slow it down on a grade. I figured a person could ease the tractor down a slope by applying the brake. I'll try using the retard setting if/when I have to go down a steep grade.
 
#4 ·
There are several threads on site which discuss upgrading the band parking brake.
Some have replaced the drum with a disc/pad setup
It requires some very good, precise welding of the disc to the trans brake shaft.
I would not rely on it for total braking, the moving mass of the tractor is much larger than the dynamic stopping function of the brake shaft and potential clamping ability.
As stated in reply below, the "retard" detent in your travel quadrant indicator places a hydraulic backpressure on hyd motor return oil, analogous somewhat to a "Jacobs Brake" used in the exhaust system of big trucks.
The flow valve fitted on later CCI's also has a similar function and resides in front of the hyd motor.
 
#5 ·
So, if the brake is setup correctly, here's what should happen,

When you depress the brake pedal, it pulls the travel lever into neutral, so now you have a lot of mass working against you because the tractor is in neutral heading down a grade. The lever should be in retard position and because you just know you're going to put your foot on the brake pedal, (it's ingrained into us to use brakes when we want to slow down) make sure you hold the travel lever from shifting as you depress the brake pedal, the spring in there will handle that just fine. AS well, an improperly setup brake,,(say it doesn't pull the travel lever back into neutral) in that scenario there is no way the brakes would overcome the torque of the hydraulic motor. What year is your tractor, does it have the holding valve?
 
#6 ·
I read this with some interest because I live at the top of a steep road. I have a model 195 and am wondering where is this retard feature located if indeed the tractor has it. or am I to stay off the hill and hope? This tractor has small disc brakes but I am afraid to trust them on tis steep road. Your thoughts are appreciated. Thanks Mike
 
#8 ·
The one thing that isn't mentioned in this thread, concerning the retard on the travel control lever, is that you have to have the engine running at full throttle. Full throttle for these tractors is 3600rpm. You will need to make sure your engine is running the 3600rpm with a tachometer. If it doesn't run at 3600rpm the retard position on the travel control will not slow the tractor on a hill.

When I first saw the word "Retard" on the dash of my 444 I became confused, because, I thought it was something old people did on Saturday night. How it should involve a tractor was beyond me.
 
#9 ·
After dealing with my 446 and mowing my hillside I bought one of the hydraulic blocks to prevent it. As I was about to install it I thought just remove the travel lever return spring. Because every time I pressed the brake it pulled it to center and it would take off before I could get the brake all the way down. So now I turn down the hill ride the brake lightly for a few seconds not touching the travel lever problem solved. The travel lever doesn't jump back to center and take off 2 years of mowing all is well.
 
#10 ·
A correctly adjusted brake provides two situations:
1. A means of quickly stopping the movement of the tractor by returning the travel lever to the neutral position and applying the brake.
2. Providing a parking brake that can hold until released as the tractor can move on its own even on a slight grade particularly if it is towing something.
On tractors that don't have a holding valve, moving the travel lever to the "retard" position will allow the operator to control the movement of the tractor on down hill areas. The oil flow to the drive motor is slowed and somewhat reversed causing the drive motor to restrict the forward movement of the tractor.
 
#11 ·
L.Fure
The word "Retard" on the panel means read and understand the operators manual before operating this tractor. If one doesn't understand what the operators manual says, then ask some old person like me, I'm 75! Just don't ask me on Saturday evening as I and the rest of the "old people" will be retarding that evening!:nana::mechanic::crying::lol::rotflmao::goodpost::geek:
 
#13 ·
I looked in to adding a holding valve and looked at up grading the drum to a disk . But when I decided to strengthen the frame for a loader , I quickly realised that the brake drum was in the way . So out it came and got the appropriate sized frost plug and sealed up the hole . With no brake at all , (the drum didn't do anything anyways ). I leaned on my back ground in auto mech. and race car building and proceeded to pillage the 03 Sante Fe I had for parts to keep to wifes car going (retired it at 450,000 km) . Brake pedal , brake master , rear calipers and hoses add ealy 200 s ford pick up rear disks (on solid rotors I could find that would fit over the axles ) redrilled to 6 bolt . Replaced wheel bolt with studs . The rear axle tube supports I put on the new frame rail reinforcements were perfect for adding mounts to hold the caliper brackets . After some trial and error . I change to a clutch master from an a Accent , pedal has long throw and I can make more pressure at the caliper. Not only can I stop the thing now but I can even slow it right down at full throttle. My mods are not for everyone but it is what I needed . Hopefully this helps anyone thinking about going this direction .
Dave
 
#15 ·
Putting Barto's 4020PS/3 point/flow control valve/lift selector valve/underseat PTO back together! The transaxle and engine are out also!:shock::mechanic:
Remind me to not get into another tractor like this one! PS by itself is bad enough!:shock::mechanic:
 
#19 ·
My set up is vary similar but with some differences. I used what I had and could get out of the local wreckers cheap . There is only so many ways you can put brakes on these things . I am not surprised someone thought of the same thing before . I have only been working on thes for about 6 years now.
Dave
 
#20 ·
I am wondering why all the work to build new brake , especially if they are not going to be independent. My 444 has a good brake, I see no need to build anything custom. The 446 I am doing now, didn't. Band was wore and oil soaked. Got a new lining from Barneveld and a clean drum. I will keep posted on it's performance.
 
#22 ·
It never occurred to me to make them independent at the time . I had not run in to independent rear brakes untill a couple of years after I put the disks on Frankie . It was about 4 years ago when I drove a "farm Tractor" for the first time. As it turns out I don't need them to be independent . When ever I get one wheel spinning I just apply the brakes and the drag balances it out . Because the brakes do not pull the travel control back to neutral anymore dragging the brakes allow me to power through when the wheel spin . Everything I do with tractors large and small is a learning experience. Been alot of fun so far .
Dave
 
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