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Relocating the fuel pump to the frame

2K views 5 replies 3 participants last post by  Matt A 
#1 · (Edited)
I've seen a few posts about relocating the vanguards fuel pump down on the frame to help with fuel starvation issues. The reasoning behind the change is that the fuel pump does not have to suck the fuel up to the pump. It can simply pump the fuel up to the carb. Lots of tractors have the fuel tank located higher than the fuel pump where as vanguards fuel pump is higher than the fuel tank. If anyone has done this and it worked please let me know. Also if you have pictures, that would be great. No need to reinvent the wheel...

The reason behind my post is that my 4016 struggles to climb the small hill in my front yard while running my RM48 deck and hydravac. The elevation change is less than 10ft over a distance of 30ft. I can be cutting almost no grass and moving at less than walking pace in high range and the RPMs will drop from 3600rpms to 3300rpms. If I try and climb the hill at a good walking pace, RPMs drop to 2900-3000. Last summer I pulled the motor and cleaned the carb. This solved my hard starting and poorly running engine. I also changed the fuel pump, fuel hose to the carb, fuel hole to the valve cover, fuel hose to the fuel pump (not the tank) and fuel filter (small filter) before cleaning the carb. The last thing I did was adjust engine speed from 3300 to 3600rpms. Hours on the tractor are 186. 2002 model year.
 
#2 ·
I did see Bobs post here:
https://casecoltingersoll.com/showt...Vanguard-Hesitation/page2?highlight=fuel+pump
"Change the air filter to P/N 692519 air filter and 692520 pre filter. same size as 394018 but less restrictive and used on 21 and 23 HP Vanguards."

I am running the 394018S air filter with 272490S pre filter, 845125 fuel filter and 696202 spark plugs. All parts except the fuel filter are about 3.5 years old, about 130 hours.
 
#3 ·
The Vanguard pump location can result in vapor lock, due to a reduced pressure in the 'suction' hose up the side of the engine.

That should be improved by locating near the frame, at the distinct risk of filling the pulse line with oil. So ... I have never gone that route honestly.


Your condition does not really sound like fuel starvation to me. If you aren't getting a full fuel bowl on the Vanguard, it will quickly start to surge (running lean) and then if severe enough simply choke out of fuel.

A 10 ft change in a 30 ft run is a serious, if not long, hill. Is that really what you are climbing?

Sounds in high range more to me like normal engine capability, while running the deck and vac. I presume it climbs with plenty of power in low range?

Let us know some more ...

Brian
 
#6 ·
The Vanguard pump location can result in vapor lock, due to a reduced pressure in the 'suction' hose up the side of the engine.

That should be improved by locating near the frame, at the distinct risk of filling the pulse line with oil. So ... I have never gone that route honestly. OK good to know.

Your condition does not really sound like fuel starvation to me. If you aren't getting a full fuel bowl on the Vanguard, it will quickly start to surge (running lean) and then if severe enough simply choke out of fuel.

A 10 ft change in a 30 ft run is a serious, if not long, hill. Is that really what you are climbing? Maybe more like 6' change? I could measure the slope if needed...

Sounds in high range more to me like normal engine capability, while running the deck and vac. I presume it climbs with plenty of power in low range? I normally don't mow in low range. The rest of my 1.5 acres is pretty flat. I can try low range this weekend.

I have a late model all orange 4016. The transmission case has the large support ribs which look like they belong on a backhoe. I think it has the slower high range gearing. Definately a lot slower than the 1992ish 3012 I had for a little while.


Let us know some more ...

Brian
Hi Matt A and group,
I had a 1985 448 that I had installed the lower ground speed high range gears. N46 deck with N40 deck drive pulley, a new P218 re power, Hydrabagger and cart. Mowing in high range was only possible on level ground at best. The tractor ground speed was still too fast to comfortably operate on a flat and mostly level area. Bear in mind that an Onan P218 has more torque than a 16 Vanguard just by nature of design.
My 4018 with an 18 Vanguard re power, Hydrabagger and cart with the higher ground speed high range gears and in high range wasn't able to handle the load. This tractor now has the slower ground speed high range gears, but no longer has a rear PTO nor the Hydrabagger.
The PTO and Hydrabagger is now on one of my Odysseys which is a basic 3014 and definitely will not mow in high range.
My Scag Tiger Cub ZTR 48" deck with a 30 HP Briggs and collection system slows down while mowing hilly areas. :geek:
Good info Bob. I'm surprised the hydravac takes so much power to run. I took the hydravac off a 3012 vanguard powered tractor with RM38 deck. The non-technical previous owner never complained about lack of power mowing his nice thick lawn (I lived next door to the guy for years...). Any time I mow thick grass more than a few inches tall, I'm down to a slow walking pace to keep the RPMs up.
 
#4 ·
Hi Matt A and group,
I had a 1985 448 that I had installed the lower ground speed high range gears. N46 deck with N40 deck drive pulley, a new P218 re power, Hydrabagger and cart. Mowing in high range was only possible on level ground at best. The tractor ground speed was still too fast to comfortably operate on a flat and mostly level area. Bear in mind that an Onan P218 has more torque than a 16 Vanguard just by nature of design.
 
#5 · (Edited)
My 4018 with an 18 Vanguard re power, Hydrabagger and cart with the higher ground speed high range gears and in high range wasn't able to handle the load. This tractor now has the slower ground speed high range gears, but no longer has a rear PTO nor the Hydrabagger.
The PTO and Hydrabagger is now on one of my Odysseys which is a basic 3014 and definitely will not mow in high range.
My Scag Tiger Cub ZTR 48" deck with a 30 HP Briggs and collection system slows down while mowing hilly areas. :geek:
 
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