4018 Kills Engine When PTO Clutch Is Engaged
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  1. #1
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    4018 Kills Engine When PTO Clutch Is Engaged

    I have an Ingersoll 4018, Serial Number: 17194696, Briggs & Stratton 18 hp V-Twin Vanguard Engine. Engine Model: 350447, Type:1111-E1, Code: 0403104.

    I've been trying to get my tractor back in top running order. I recently adjusted the valves, installed new Briggs & Stratton plugs, removed the gas tank, and installed new fuel filter and lines.

    A local shop suggested that I try PB Blaster Tuneup. He claimed that this product would help remove carbon buildup on the cylinders. I tried it today and it worked wonders.

    My issue is every time I turn the PTO deck switch on, it will kill the engine instantaneously. I can turn the blades by hand and they move freely. I'm puzzled as to why the engine dies when the deck is turned on.

    Looking forward to all suggestions!

    gman

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    Senior Member dave1mn2's Avatar
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    Sounds like a seat safety switch.
    Last edited by dave1mn2; 11-18-2020 at 09:03 PM.

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    Senior Member Maine Willy's Avatar
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    Agree with Dave -
    First - is the travel control lever in neutral?
    Are you sitting in the seat when you try to engage the PTO?
    If so, then start with the seat safety switch.

    Here are the manuals:

    https://casecoltingersoll.com/showthread.php/11096-Ingersoll-3000-3100-4000-4100-6000-and-7000-Models

    Page 27 of manual 8-61220 has the electrical diagram for what I think is your tractor. The upper right corner shows the seat safety switch, the upper left shows the neutral start switch.

    Best of luck, Willy

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    dave1mn2 (11-19-2020)

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    Dealer bhildret's Avatar
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    Agree.

    Could also be the actual PTO switch, which also contains safety switch circuits. This is a commonly replaced switch (much more than the seat), which you might consider simply replacing it as a maintenance item, also.

    https://salempwr.com/c31937-switch/

    For the seat switch you will need to look at it to determine the type used. On some models there is a switch within the base of the seat itself and on others there is a push button interacting with the seat hinge plate. (Earlier builds would have been a lever arm style proximity switch)

    For your late production tractor, we find these type seat switches to be very reliable and so I more suspect your PTO switch, without further detail in hand.

    Brian

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    dave1mn2 (11-19-2020),Maine Willy (11-19-2020)

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    Senior Member dave1mn2's Avatar
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    Bit of a ramble and then a simple diagnostic.

    I know some people like to complain about safety items, the cost and complexity they bring but the 70 yr. old tractor in my avatar, had a neutral start system and so did it's 11 yr. older brother. There may have been models that had them before that (1939) too.

    I put the seat switch, in very nearly the same category of obvious need. A low hanging limb, a stroke, or heart attack ... If I come out of that seat, I WANT that thing to stop. I kinda doubt they could go through a chain link fence but I've seen plenty of board fences that wouldn't hold them. And they'd cross any swale too. It'd take a proper ditch to stop them. On the thousand series, we're talking almost 700 lbs. - to over 800, just for the naked tractors, then we add 100+ for a deck or blade and some add hundreds more for auxiliary weight.

    Lecture over, to test the seat switch, of which ever type, unplug it and install a jumper between the connectors it was plugged into. If your problem goes away, as they say, theres your sign. If not, as Brian advises, PTO switches do go bad. It could also be your clutch but as that is considerably more expensive, it makes sense to diagnose the cheaper items first.

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    4018 KillsEngineWhen PTO Clutch Is Engaged

    I want to thank Maine Willy, Brian, and Dave for their input. I went out and started the tractor today. Let her warm up for 10 minutes and while sitting in the seat, turned the PTO switch on. The engine died immediately.

    Back in May of this year, see Thread: Ingersoll 4018 Safety Question, I posted trying to solve my issues. I replaced the solenoid, neutral safety switches, the dash bulbs, and tested the seat safety switch, which was good.

    I could not determine why you cannot sit in the seat and start the tractor. You would have to either be standing on the ground or siting on the fender and turning the key, which is the opposite of a normal procedure.

    I have the Delta System Model 6520 round seat switch in my machine. I removed the switch and it tested good with my voltmeter.

    I took off the belt from the motor to the deck, turned the PTO switch on, and it worked like it should. Could there be a bad wire that melted or shorted out that is causing my issues?

    gman

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    Senior Member dave1mn2's Avatar
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    "I could not determine why you cannot sit in the seat and start the tractor. You would have to either be standing on the ground or siting on the fender and turning the key, which is the opposite of a normal procedure."

    I've heard of safety switches failing always on, or always off but I've never heard of them failing in reverse.

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    4018 KillsEngineWhen PTO Clutch Is Engaged

    Quote Originally Posted by dave1mn2 View Post
    "I could not determine why you cannot sit in the seat and start the tractor. You would have to either be standing on the ground or siting on the fender and turning the key, which is the opposite of a normal procedure."

    I've heard of safety switches failing always on, or always off but I've never heard of them failing in reverse.
    I purchased this tractor 10 years ago and until this year, she has been, for the most part, trouble free. I can't explain why you can't sit in the seat to start her unless one of the wires fried or shorted the on/off switch.

    I just removed the motor to the deck belt. With the engine running and sitting in the seat, I turned the PTO switch on. The clutch was spinning and the engine didn't die. I decided to get off the seat with the PTO on and engine still running, and the engine started to shut down. I believe this simple test shows that the seat safety switch works.

    Tomorrow I'll inspect the deck to see if there is something preventing the belt from rotating with the deck. That still leaves the problem of what's causing the tractor not to start when sitting in the seat.

    Any member have any ideas why you can't sit in the seat to start the tractor?

    gman

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    Senior Member Maine Willy's Avatar
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    OK - This us a long shot - is it possible there is a wire shorted to the frame by the lower right side of the engine where the harness goes up to the PTO? (there is a jumble of wires there as I recall - mine were ziptied together and the PTO wire emerges and runs along the frame and up to the PTO). When you removed the belt, perhaps you bumped the wire enough to move it away from the frame so things worked as they should?

    Years ago mine stopped dead from a headlight wire that touched the frame in that area and blew the fuse located by the key switch.

    Willy

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    Read this thread.....
    https://casecoltingersoll.com/showth...illing-Tractor

    I had this exact problem back in May of this year and my problem was the extension harness.

    Josh

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