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Seat suspension.

8K views 55 replies 9 participants last post by  dave1mn2 
#1 ·
Not many posts that I found mention it and its kinda surprising. CCIs had an evolution from metal pan seats, to thinly upholstered with rubber bumpers, to slightly better upholstery with springs, to a pretty decent seat and springs. With so many Cases still in use from before the change, I figured there'd be more people doing something about it.

Raising the seat too much may explain it and lack of a choice under several hundreds of dollars, may explain it further but I found one that won't raise it too terribly high that I'm strongly considering.

Its kinda funny though. Prices are all over the place, for the exact same thing and there is a definite love / hate thing about it. Its billed as "universal" but warns of fit, shows detailed drawings and encourages contact with the co. for any questions. Summarizing a bunch of reviews, of those who don't have a direct fit ... ~ Throw the directions away, they're worthless and confusing. Plan on having to rework things but do it anyway, because it'll be the best ride of your life.~

https://tracseats.com/seat-suspension-kits
 
#7 ·
My $.02 I agree that plate is great for making seat adapters and I have done that as well.

The latest mod to the 646 seat, and this is NOT the OEM seat on the tractor, but I wanted to move it back for more leg room. I used two 6 inch long pieces of shallow U channel:

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The U channel is only like 3/8 -> 1/2" deep but 1 1/2 or so wide. I have 2 bolts under the seat into the mount that lets me cantilever the channel out past the end of the pan. It's a solid mount.

I too am watching your progress with this seat suspension add on .
 
#8 ·
Reading some of the reviews, apparently the device needs some space under it, in order to function, so bolting it to the seat pan is out. But I just went from a big wheel, to a low pro, on purpose, to get the lower center of gravity due to slopes. So the directions say mount it to the slide rails. I don't need the slide rails and if it doesn't need that much room, I'll come up with spacers, in order to give it enough but no more than necessary. That will help make up for whatever plate I'll have to put between it and the seat. Considering rubber pucks below, steel plate above but until I get it in my hands and see just how much room it needs where, all I can do is sorta brain storm.

Even with a decent seat and the factory spring system, the front is rigid. This device will cushion to the front too. I expect it to make a big difference in the ride. I just need to keep it as low as possible.
 
#9 ·
I'm wondering if the design is such that when this seat suspension compresses the arms come UP through these holes in the top plate:
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and that's why they want the slide rails on the seat to make space for that.. Which leads me to wonder, so what if you flip this thing upside down will it still work correctly? then the 'space' it needs could be under the mount and not between the seat and the mount.

If you removed the standard 'Seat Hinge' plate and replaced it with two rails, that still hinged, but that were open in between that could be a way to provide space..
 
#10 ·
I'm wondering if the design is such that when this seat suspension compresses the arms come UP through these holes in the top plate:
View attachment 119331

and that's why they want the slide rails on the seat to make space for that.. Which leads me to wonder, so what if you flip this thing upside down will it still work correctly? then the 'space' it needs could be under the mount and not between the seat and the mount.

If you removed the standard 'Seat Hinge' plate and replaced it with two rails, that still hinged, but that were open in between that could be a way to provide space..
Dunno. When I get it in my hands, I'll throw it in the vise and take some measurements of the travel, how much and where it happens.
 
#12 ·
Got side tracked with other things.

Here is what I know so far. All the movement is on the bottom side. You need 3/4" of extra room, in order to get full travel. My seat slides are 7/8" and while I was planning on removing them, may as well try to make them work with the project. I did buy a bunch of washers (an option listed in the directions) just in case I change my mind.

The top, needs no extra room but I don't think a single existing hole is going to work anywhere. The best I could get for plate, was some 3" wide 3/16' flat stock.

I think what is going to happen, is the plate will be drilled with countersunk holes to match the seat and bolted up with stainless flat heads. On the other end, the slide rails will be bolted to the bottom of the suspension system and new holes drilled into the seat pan to accept the wider stance. In the middle, I'm hoping for just enough room with the curvature of the seat bottom and the four rubber pucks that are standard there, to sneak bolts between the plate material and the top of the suspension system to finish all the connections.

*Subject to change.

Cranked up to full tension, I couldn't budge it, standing and bouncing on it and I'm 220. Cranked all the way to soft, it takes a pretty good grip but with 2 hands, I could collapse it. Lots of turns from lock to lock so pretty decent odds of some nice fine tuning.

If all goes well, should be done tomorrow. If not, well, you know how that goes.
 
#13 ·
Just some reference pics, so I can refer to them more easily.

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The slide rails will bolt up to the suspension bottom without drilling but will need a couple washers to give space for the locking mechanism. Now, whether those existing holes are where I'll need them to be for the finished fit ... Haven't gotten that far yet.
 
#14 ·
Ok, the seat slides are out and I'm fine with that. It was my original plan anyway. By the time I shimmed for the slide mechanism it was near a half inch higher than just the 3/4" required for the suspension and keeping it as low as possible is a priority. There was also going to be a conflict with the pan spring bolts and now there isn't. It also gives more flexibility with hole spacing. The device is plenty beefy enough to take a few new holes if needed, just need to make sure a conflict isn't created with access, or moving parts of the device.
 
#15 ·
Made some templates for the plate pieces. The general idea is going to work. A bit tight in the back but plenty of room in the front. Not a single hole is where it needs to be though. Drilling in the seat pan and the suspension, both top and bottom.
 
#16 ·
The base is mounted to the seat pan.

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The templets are mounted to the seat and set in the holes of the suspension.

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I'll trim the tag ends, front n back but wanted extra length at this stage, just to have more choices on placement.
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Screwed up my templets by assuming the handle was centered. I've fixed it but done for the day.

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Total increased, unloaded height, is 2 7/8". As the suspension flexes, the seat moves slightly backwards.
 
#19 ·
I'm trying to decide if "floating", adequately describes the new ride. :grin:

I think I'm about 25 or so full turns from soft lock. Not bottomed out but plenty of cush. Having full suspension, instead of just in the back, is a game changer.

The plates work and made it possible. While there were ample spots for custom drilling on the bottom, not so on the top and this seat only had 4 mounting holes. When we get painting weather, I'll paint them black.

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I was able to match how far the seat was back, close enough and raising it, gives more leg room anyway.

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The handle does stick out. I may look into a way to shorten that some but I can still snake through the middle for mounting and dismounting, just not quite as easily.

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There is a hole to run the seat safety switch through it but I'll stick some sheathing around it, just in case. I've read where some had to add length to their wires but mine plugged back in and functions.

Motor vehicle Vehicle Automotive exterior Gas Auto part

For the first time ever, I was able to use full travel speed on my yard, without getting beat to death.

I do wish it wasn't quite so tall but I hit the slopes and not once grabbed for the fender, which I did constantly on the 4020PS.

It is further to reach my beer, or set the parking brake and longer legged than me, will want to stretch out a little, else hit the controls with your knees but you can now so ...

Thick thighed guys, might have an issue. I'm 6' and 220, so not exactly small but plenty are bigger so ...

The directions are useless and this was a custom fit, at every step but the device and the hardware that came with it, are quality. I bought the plate material, 4 stainless oval head (couldn't get flat in the right size) screws for the seat, 2 packs of washers for spacers and 4, 1.5" bolts. A drill press and proper clamps came in really handy but I did plenty before I got one and the properly sized counter sink bit, let me shave 1/8" of height. I had some shims that just so happened to be the right size to keep the suspension from collapsing while drilling but if you crank it to max firm, you can drill it without. Just take your time, with a sharp bit. Especially since I'd planned on countersinking the holes in the plates for the seats, making templates was a must do, to be sure of exact placement and don't rely on the handle being centered for any measurements. It isn't and that cost me finishing in 1 day. I thought about collecting measurements for you but a different seat, seat pan, or preferred seat adjustment would make them all useless so, think custom.

Just a few laps around the yard, so not much seat time but I think this is going to be great add on, if you want a softer ride.

Looking forward to seeing what design improvements any who decide to use this come up with. Especially anything that lowers it, while maintaining full travel, or shortening the handle.
 
#20 ·
I'm trying to decide if "floating", adequately describes the new ride. :grin:

I think I'm about 25 or so full turns from soft lock. Not bottomed out but plenty of cush. Having full suspension, instead of just in the back, is a game changer.

The plates work and made it possible. While there were ample spots for custom drilling on the bottom, not so on the top and this seat only had 4 mounting holes. When we get painting weather, I'll paint them black.

View attachment 119421
I was able to match how far the seat was back, close enough and raising it, gives more leg room anyway.

View attachment 119423
The handle does stick out. I may look into a way to shorten that some but I can still snake through the middle for mounting and dismounting, just not quite as easily.

View attachment 119425
There is a hole to run the seat safety switch through it but I'll stick some sheathing around it, just in case. I've read where some had to add length to their wires but mine plugged back in and functions.

View attachment 119427
For the first time ever, I was able to use full travel speed on my yard, without getting beat to death.

I do wish it wasn't quite so tall but I hit the slopes and not once grabbed for the fender, which I did constantly on the 4020PS.

It is further to reach my beer, or set the parking brake and longer legged than me, will want to stretch out a little, else hit the controls with your knees but you can now so ...

Thick thighed guys, might have an issue. I'm 6' and 220, so not exactly small but plenty are bigger so ...

The directions are useless and this was a custom fit, at every step but the device and the hardware that came with it, are quality. I bought the plate material, 4 stainless oval head (couldn't get flat in the right size) screws for the seat, 2 packs of washers for spacers and 4, 1.5" bolts. A drill press and proper clamps came in really handy but I did plenty before I got one and the properly sized counter sink bit, let me shave 1/8" of height. I had some shims that just so happened to be the right size to keep the suspension from collapsing while drilling but if you crank it to max firm, you can drill it without. Just take your time, with a sharp bit. Especially since I'd planned on countersinking the holes in the plates for the seats, making templates was a must do, to be sure of exact placement and don't rely on the handle being centered for any measurements. It isn't and that cost me finishing in 1 day. I thought about collecting measurements for you but a different seat, seat pan, or preferred seat adjustment would make them all useless so, think custom.

Just a few laps around the yard, so not much seat time but I think this is going to be great add on, if you want a softer ride.

Looking forward to seeing what design improvements any who decide to use this come up with. Especially anything that lowers it, while maintaining full travel, or shortening the handle.
Could it be turned around so adjuster is in the rear?...........Curt
 
#24 ·
On seats with sliding adjusters, I have both cut them shorter or bent them with consideration of still being able to adjust the seat position. The sliders need to be cleaned and lubricated periodically otherwise they lock up. I installed sliders on one of my Odysseys as my grandsons sometimes operate it. Odysseys have a higher steering wheel position and increasing the seat height is not a problem. While I was installing the sliders and a new high back seat on the Odyssey, I tried it on my 1989 4018 but it was too high as the 4018 has a low steering wheel position.:geek:
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#25 · (Edited)
Called Trac Seats, they'll get back with me.

On the phone now with Seats Inc. (who wrote the instructions.). The person who answered the phone couldn't be nicer and is trying to find someone to answer my question about the handle.

EDIT.

Also called K&M Manufacturing (manufacturer?) Left a voicemail.
 
#26 ·
Taking the seat back off tomorrow, so the plates can warm up in prep for painting. I'll take a closer look at removing and reinstalling the handle from the other end then. There will be some roll pins to drive out and reinstall, so need to assure access, for reinstallation and that it won't be too long the other way.
 
#27 · (Edited)
In my phone calls yesterday, the Trac Seats guy was nice enough but didn't really know anything. He took my name, # and email, said he'd check into it but I honestly didn't expect much but early this morn, he emailed a response. And it works with what I'd been thinking. Because the adjustment rod has roll pins in certain places, the likelihood of simply being able to remove it and reinstall it from the other end and have everything be where it needs to be is pretty thin. I'll look into that further but it makes sense. His rec is to remove the handle, cut the rod and reinstall a handle. That is very possible but more of a last resort sort of thing.

The lady from Seats Inc was nails. One of the top customer service experiences I've ever had. Professional, yet friendly and really dug, to try to help. She sent me several CAD drawings not published elsewhere and the name of another person to call (who wasn't available yesterday).

K&M Manufacturing answered with an auto operator. I picked customer service, left a voice mail. We'll see.

Also gonna do a hard verify of exactly how much room the device needs for maximum travel, in order to see if I can shave the height any and getting flat heads, rather than oval heads, should give up another 1/8" or so.
 
#28 ·
When I look at that knob sticking out front I keep thinking that it should fold down.. and if your turn the mount 90 degrees so the handle is on either side, then the seat and your butt will move sideways when you hit a bump, so that won't work.

So shortening the handle. and for some reason in my mind I see almost a window crank, with a knob. Then you can make fairly large adjustments quickly. OR maybe something home made like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/machine-handles/heavy-duty-low-profile-adjustable-handles/ could be used and if it was bolted to the existing rod, how much space would that save?

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#30 ·
When I look at that knob sticking out front I keep thinking that it should fold down.. and if your turn the mount 90 degrees so the handle is on either side, then the seat and your butt will move sideways when you hit a bump, so that won't work.

So shortening the handle. and for some reason in my mind I see almost a window crank, with a knob. Then you can make fairly large adjustments quickly. OR maybe something home made like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/machine-handles/heavy-duty-low-profile-adjustable-handles/ could be used and if it was bolted to the existing rod, how much space would that save?

View attachment 119503
Those springs are the real deal. It takes a pretty firm twist to adjust it. And any lever type handle, on post 1994 (?) models, conflict with the PTO cover could be an issue. The current handle is splined, or keyed. A threaded handle, would have to have some provision to stop it from backing out.

Something I'm going to check today, is unbolting the top section from the linkages, spinning it and hooking it back up.

If that works, I may have to rework the plates, or even make new ones but the travel will still move the seat to the rear during actuation and get the handle out of the way, while otherwise, leaving the deice unaltered.

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#29 ·
Ok, I went back and looked at the photos again..

If you want the knob in the back of the mount, then flip the mount upside down and turn it 180 so the knob is on the back. It should still compress down and back in that configuration. Then the 3/4 space is needed above the mount between it and the seat. But the adjustment is now on the back with no modifications..
 
#31 ·
Ok, I went back and looked at the photos again..

If you want the knob in the back of the mount, then flip the mount upside down and turn it 180 so the knob is on the back. It should still compress down and back in that configuration. Then the 3/4 space is needed above the mount between it and the seat. But the adjustment is now on the back with no modifications..
As designed, during actuation, the seat moves slightly to the rear. I may need more coffee to think about this but pretty sure flipping it vertically 180, would switch that to moving the seat forward. I may be making too big a deal about that but don't think I'd like it.

Also, this seat has 8" centers, left to right on the mounting holes. Not sure if that is wide enough to clear the top coming through the bottom.
 
#32 ·
Good News! Your mileage may vary but at my preferred setting, I don't need the full 3/4" under it. I do need more than 3/16 so, adding back another washer. That too may be too close but it won't take more than one more after that. Also, locally sourced the flat heads I want. Should shave another 1/8" or so. And best for last, by lowering it so much, the handle is much less annoying and may become a non issue.
 
#34 ·
Nope. Spoke too soon. I do need the full 3/4". When I took in it down, it bottomed out but didn't seem like by that much. Got tired of adding one more washer, stuck it in the vise and measured it again. 3/4"

A real shame, because the handle wasn't in the way (for me) lower.
 
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